Why farmers are mad as hell at Morneau and Trudeau

It’s safe to say lots of farmers are mad as hell at federal Finance Minister Bill Morneau and his boss, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau over the proposed small business tax overhaul.

Why is this?

Is it because they’re a bunch of fat-cat tax-cheats who have gotten their fingers caught in the cookie jar and are embarrassed that their little scams have been revealed? That’s the sense some people in the federal government have spun when they have been confronted by the vociferous reaction of small businesses across the country to the proposed changes to taxes on incorporated small businesses. Trudeau has spoken about “wealthy individuals” and the “rich” as the people who are “making a lot of noise” about the changes.

I don’t think that applies to the farmers who are outraged by this. (I don’t know enough of the millions of other small businesspeople across the country to comment on why they seem to be equally furious.) I think farmers feel blindsided, bewildered, libelled and and hoodwinked by the federal move and its approach.

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If anybody needs to understand why farmers are furious, they aren’t understanding that:

  1. It looks pretty bad to launch the idea and the comment period in mid-July and have it end on October 2. That’s obviously the busiest time of the year for farmers and many or most won’t be able to get to their accountants or tax planners in time to get detailed advice on how it might affect them in order to provide meaningful feedback to the Finance department.
  2. It feels like the fix is in when the government doesn’t just post the proposals and stand back and wait for honest feedback before hard-selling the proposed legislation. Morneau and Trudeau have hardly seemed open-minded about this issue, although Morneau seems to be giving farmers’ and other concerns a more serious hearing.
  3. Farmers have played by the rules and been prudent in listening to professionals and lots of government advisors, incorporating their farms as the most-recommended way of passing their own farms down the next generation, preserving Canada’s family farm structure, and more sensibly establishing retirement plans for aging farmers than the formerly common previous tendency for dad to hang on to everything, keep his plans secret, dying and leaving a lot of chaos behind. Most farmers aren’t sneakily finding clever loopholes and exploiting them, they are listening to professionals who are recommending these things, and the professionals are doing their due diligence by recommending strategies that are based on rules that have been on the books for decades and which are the law.
  4. Farmers have made many plans based on the current rules and will need time to adjust if there is a complete overhaul. For instance, many have based their kids’ university and college education funding plans on “income sprinkling” rather than Registered Education Savings Plans or other set-ups, but that would be banned by the proposals and it might be too late for many to set up some alternative savings plan.
  5. It seems like a mad rush. This would be a huge change, but it looks like the government plans to push forward rapidly, with an abbreviated comment period, pre-written legislation (for some issues) and backdating of implementation dates if it eventually gets passed by Parliament.
  6. They’re doing this AT HARVEST?????

This move of the government’s might be playing well with many on the political left, is causing paroxysms of outrage (and malevolent glee because they think it is helping the Conservative opposition gain ground and support) on the political right, but it leaves many non-political, farm families feeling bewildered, betrayed and insulted. If you want to understand why they’re mad, that’s why.

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  • Elizabeth Kram

    The FAT CATS are in as SENATORS and all the POLITICIANS with their big pay checks and pensions and all the cash their fathers left them from draining the rest of Canada in their years of life and past the cash on to THEIR children, like TRUDEAU AND MORNEAU. They are the FAT CATS and the THIEVES.

    • ed

      Close, but it was Harper that stole your CWB that was loading up your pot. Prices of wheat adjusted for inflation are about one half of what they were and beans etc. with no competition for that land is just penny’s per acre above that. It is now coming home to roost to the point that the government now has no operational profits left to tax. So to get some tax on what Cargill stole they have to come at it differently. Thanks?

      • Pete Campbell

        What are you ranting about? CWB has nothing to do with price of wheat being half of what it was 5 years ago. Considering they took a 30% cut of sales and underpaid Canadian farmers compared to the spot market prices, farmers aren’t missing the CWB at all.

        • Harold

          “farmers aren’t missing the CWB at all”? What you have is a foreign take-over and their manipulation of the market that feeds their own profit interests, and what was traded by market fixing by the Elite was 51% Canadian sovereignty given away. No big deal right; just as long as you get a higher pay check. The remaining 49% is next to be given away in time, and you think that your pay check will rise higher? Apparently, you don’t know what being at another-ones mercy is all about. Has the government not explained it to you enough yet? Look in your wallet and look at your children’s future; see anything other than a government job and tremendous debt, or do you see budding entrepreneurs. Farming has been made so poor that families are leaving it and giving it up to the global corporate and foreign interests landed here. Enjoy your pay cheque and extra dollars while you still have it. 100% foreign owned is the same thing as saying – nothing locally owned. Did slavery not teach us all something? It’s too bad that the black people all suffered in vain. Now the “blacks” and the “whites” are both in servitude and slavery to the government master. Wasn’t it all owing to the Laws of Government or did we decide that? Government servicing is the same thing that a bull does to a cow. Today it is done sometimes by a licensed government hand. License: the sense to lie – license. Farmers aren’t missing anything that a bull and a cow can’t explain.

          • ed

            Great points!

        • ed

          The CWB delivered 89-93% of the port price to the farm gate over the years, no matter the world price. After it was systematically dismantled, annexed, all the farmer paid assets within it sold off for a total price of $0, or however you want to frame it in your own mind, the farmer on the prairies immediately started receiving 40% of the port price. This was easily tracked as some companies were still mistakenly publishing their port prices near the atart of the process. Of course they quit doing that soon after farmwrs started wondering what the hell was going on. After these big companies had extracted enough money from the farmers to build many new “get away car like” facility and raise all their PSR’s wages $20,000 / year and under a hugh amount of pressure, they became a little bit more civilized and started returning as much as 60% of the port price to the Western Canadian farmers farm gate. Busted,…sort of, but still making out like “Bandits”. Now you do get the lesser amount immediately but it is no more than the “initial payments” were when the CWB was in place and you are still missing all the remainder of the wheat price that the big companies are putting in their pockets soon after farmers have made the sale. Thus the need for things like beans. We could have grown them before; but didn’t of course because there truly was no need of doing that. Is there alot of beans now? You bet there is!

      • Harold

        Clearly you have not seen any of details of this Bill. I recommend that you exchange liberal red rose colored glasses for clear ones, and to get out of your yesterdays conservative “blues,” and look again. Do you have any Idea at all, just who the Liberal’s are calling “the rich”? It is not Cargill. Trudeau (rich) and Bill Morneau, (very rich) they are not calling themselves “the rich”. To boot, you have two very rich men (Justin and Bill) who they and their families never in their lifetime have to worry about money and they are telling Canadians that Canadians (small business) do not pay enough. Farmers when they are “seeding their money”; they DO pay enough in taxes, but now the Liberals want more. Moreover, apparently you can’t see a corporate (Cargill et all) takeover of farm and small business in the making with the help of government even if it slapping you in the face, not to mention another government tax-grab to cover their unwarranted spending sprees. You know that CWB thing? It’s happening again; this time another color and another title is the only difference. But oh, we do like a good believable government told tale of Robin Hood to put us all to sleep, don’t we? Ya, Trudeau and the Liberal’s will fix it for you Ed; you just watch. The influence of the corporations magically just ran away when the Liberal’s were elected. You are safe now Ed.

        • ed

          In many ways you are pretty close..Happening again/ Liberals do bad on farmers too…Corporate takeover…etc. Great points.

          • Harold

            How do you know that it isn’t the opposite; I’m on site and you’re “pretty close”? Its better if you just don’t say it at all.

          • ed

            Indeed, you maybe should have left that unsaid.

          • Harold

            The Corporate Rich, Trudeau, Morneau, and other billionaire friends, will not loose one nickel from these taxes; they have targeted small business only.

          • ed

            And in particular, small business tax evasion fraud activity.

          • Harold

            So it is ok for the billionaires and Trudeau and Morneau who never have to be concerned with money – ever – in their lifetime -to continue to commit “fraud and tax evasion” provided they tax small businesses instead? If small businesses were in the act of committing fraud or tax evasion those businesses would be headed to court – not headed to politics. This is nothing more than a double fisted tax grab on Canadians leaving the Corporate rich untouched. You have bought into their Corporate and government propaganda, hook, line, and sinker, and for that end they have done a good job. The Rich telling us that Canadians don’t pay enough in taxes and that Canadians are nothing more than tax scammers. Does this tax benefit the public/people, or does it benefit the corporate and government? There is a bigger picture than the narrow one that the government has provided for to you to look at. Have you been provided any data that proves the governments claims or just surface statements and Government say so?

          • ed

            I think what you are saying here is that if the ultra rich can commit tax fraud so too should small business be able to do it or continue to do it, whatever the case may be. Many would disagree with you on that stance. Lowering the tax on small business from 11.5% – 9.0% as promised may be good for Trudeau’s Government perhaps, but merely changing the narrative on the tax fraud part of things will not change the anger on that front. They will be upset that they can’t double or triple dip when the working man still pays 35-45% in taxes to keep the deficiencys a little lower. The ones paying the most legitimately say, “who reall should be paying some of the taxes”, and the ones paying the least are proclaiming that, “others should share in the tax burdens.” Weird eh!

          • Harold

            No I am not saying that. I am pointing at the fact that these people in government protect their own interests and the interests of corporations and foreign global interests FIRST and that has nothing to do with the taxpayers; it has more to do with being a pig at the trough. Secondly, no one is committing a TAX fraud; that is YOUR word. Seeding money was not a Tax loop hole; it was created by government to allow small business to create nest eggs to fall back upon in hard times. It was put into place to prop up small businesses. They use the money to fund their businesses instead of getting loans or they pay for their kids education so their children are not left with a huge debt burden and what is left they just might retire on and so forth. That money is already taxed and now government wants to double tax it. In essence, small businesses are being punished for lowering their debt burdens. Perhaps you would rather see small businesses on government grants provided by you; the taxpayer. What is interesting about you Ed, is that you would eagerly follow the governments narrative as if being the gospel truth and ignore the governments uncontrollable spending habits and tax grabs. How much “fair share” to we pay to a government who cannot control their spending habits? What exactly is our tax spending limit to governments; 50%, 60%, 75%, 100%?
            The government did do a good job in making you believe that you are the victim of small business money seeding and you along with others have bought it, hook, line, and sinker. You speak as if you were an agent of the government. Nonetheless, as I have said before, behind all of this is a corporate takeover.

          • ed

            So basically tax fraud.

  • Harold

    You can pray all you want, but the change will not be made by the fools or corrupt who have conceived it; It will come by the taxpayers who reject it in no uncertain terms. The Government has lied and has deliberately withheld a full disclosure to which all Canadians can make a fully informed choice. As Laura MacRae has pointed out in her comment is a private company will tell you the truth and your government lies to you, and in further betrayal, they receive their own pay cheques from the ones they lie to; WE – the tax payer. You only pray when there is nothing further to be done that you can humanly do, and not before. You have Intellect – you have a voice – you have hands – and you have feet; those who have none – they pray. There is an adage: God only helps those who help themselves. Your God given anatomy is your start. I say this not to belittle you – but because we are daily bombarded with messages of defeat and therefore we become to live by them – but only in the absence of truth. Where there is truth – you don’t need to tell the people to stand – they are already standing; to prevent this – we are fed government BS. If the public accepts this government offer by sitting on their hands and keeping their mouth closed – the public will go to jail for non compliance in the future. That is what government is. They are a corporation – they are not your friend so don’t expect to reason with them: they are called our servants, not boss, for a good reason. Canadians have local and federal servants and yet they order them to do nothing. Is there any wonder to why there are weeds in the fields and to whom is keeping them there.
    In truth, the people don’t have to know anything about anything to give their servant a resounding NO! There is no law that compels the public to accept this new government offer. If the public remains silent – the offer is accepted – and that is why the government conceals the truth and lies to us and paints us their rosy red pictures; public silence and acceptance. After the fact, the government and financial corporation’s run off with the goods. Corporations’ are not lobbying governments for nothing and government is truly serving them until we the public say otherwise – in no uncertain terms. Our sly little finance minister approached the farmers to cover up the fact that this tax grab will effect everybody, and that farmers are a part of that everybody. When the grocery store is taxed for example, the prices increase, and that affects any savings the farmer has. Any tax increase has a snow ball effect on the economy and we become poorer. .

  • ed

    Co-written by Cargill no doubt.

    • Harold

      Ed, you’re smarter than that. You’re scraping the bottom of the barrel to conflate the issue; why?

      • ed

        Great point Harold.

  • Farmer

    Trudeau and Morneau knew what they were doing, no flack from the farmers as they are to busy bringing in the crops. This new tax grab will sink the Liebrals….Yeah!!! What will happen the to the East & West coast Fishermen are they going to be exempt. As Morneau and Trudope mentioned some will be exempt…going after the WEST once again.

    • ed

      Once again? Yes…no argument. Canadian Governments are going after the West once again.

  • Viclad

    It’s not hard to see why the Grits don’t understand the risk for entrepreneurs, including farmers, of investing money into their businesses that take years to, pardon the pun, bear fruit. Their idea of “investment” is taking others’ money, never their own, leaving the risk to society and taxpayers generally, with them then sprinkling the lucre amongst their connected 1%ers, like Bombardier executives, who’s only talent seems to be procuring taxpayer dollars. They are simply projecting their own greed and pining for loopholes onto hardworking Canadians who create all the jobs in this country while statists and this government specifically go out of their way to destroy them. As for economic acumen, two things come to mind. One, this government went from a surplus to a $30b deficit in their first year, with more coming. They’re desperate for more revenues as their rob Peter to pay Omar has failed, with them not understanding the terrible message they’re sending the productive ones in our society. Second, and more likely significant is the obtuse attempt to portray Trudeau as a brilliant man, who in reality made a stupid statement about doctors’ wives in one of the debates, when he wasn’t shouting down Mr Harper with the acquiescence of his media sycophants and fellow socialist travelers. When you’ve never earned a cent in your life except by working off the public teat or your family’s fortune, it’s not hard to imagine these present “calculations” about “fairness” masking a desperate need for money, as productivity swirls about the drain in increasing intensity with every additional removal of resources through taxation, in the name of fairness but which is in reality just plain government greed and economic incompetence. Morneau may be in a blind trust, but the voters were taken with their blind trust to outright lies to the Canadian people about previous & phantom deficits and recessions. Now they can be visited on us for real thanks to the media and Grit mendacity. How much pain will Canadians endure before they stop this envy train?

  • tickityb

    Justins N.E.P on farmers, all socialist r wealthy ?

  • The Oatmeal Savage

    Trudeau wants a class war.
    The makers against the takers.

    • ed

      We’ve been in that for quite awhile. No easy solutions there. Con the poor to vote, then the rich set policy for the rich. Not new stuff.

  • The Oatmeal Savage

    Thank the media liars for getting this retard elected.
    We should have re-elected Harper.

    • Harold

      Re-electing a poor and failed statesmen, is not the answer. The public telling the politicians what to do, and abiding by it, is the answer. Hope only rests with a public who will not take control. Hope is when you let someone else drive and you the back seat passenger not in control; you hope. Instead of the politician telling the voter what they will do, it is time for the voters to tell the politician what to do – and enforce it. The public’s holiday is long over.

      • The Oatmeal Savage

        Harper did a very good job.
        He wasn’t perfect but he was miles ahead of Trudeau The Dumber.
        The media lies got Trudeau elected.
        Fer instance during the media’s ‘Harper is at war with science’ crusade Harper increased science funding by $9 billion.
        And then there was [a hunger striker] who was protesting Harper and getting complete media backing for her lies.

        • Harold

          Where does anyone get the Idea that politics or a leader are about perfection and what entrusted mortal owns that scale to be measured by? Is it the Ten Commandments? None of them can get past the 9th commandment – thou shalt not lie -and the 10th commandment – thou shalt not covet. A child standing beside Harper could be considered “not perfect” as well. The term “not perfect” is a nothing-burger. “Not perfect” is a dismissive term, and I am not moved by it. People are not seeking perfection: they are seeking results. Failure is failure – period When you are running a corporation you are in charge of many separate offices and in those offices each are to produce results. If they do not – you fire them. If you do not fire them, their failure is your failure. The term “not perfect” doesn’t land anywhere in the real world. “Not perfect” is a term people use after they’ve been slapped across the face and then choose that they and others should ignore it. (Ignorance)
          Headline: “Harper increased science funding by $9 billion”
          Do you really think that you have learned something? Sounds warm and fuzzy. If I were Monsanto for example, I would ask the government to do the same to save me a little cash. The backs of the taxpayer (mule) and the backs of student personal debt (mule) can make me rich; I only need to patent the product that they create (theft) and scoop the “cream off the top” (highest achiever) and hire them. (mule) The $9 billion is what – on top of what $$$ funding that they are already paying annually? Who rightfully funds science; Government? History could teach us all something about that; what are universities and colleges really? Public debt and student debt are at the foot of the rich Elite and students are educated only to bring the elite wealth and therefore they are given their jobs. Those entering are promised a Job; but they are not promised to be given the ability to create their own empires. Governments only have a duty to fund G1 – G12. (constitution) for a reason. Imagine our tax saving at the expense of the corporate who were to be the only ones funding the University.
          Hunger strike and Media hype. I too can read media head- lines and media reports but I also know what is not being said or covered. If I don’t – i find out – but I never take Media at their word or picture; they have yet to earn that standing or respect. When the Media camera is focused on a presenter or image and the background is not to their liking, (funded) they just simply change the angle shot to suit the desired presentation. By the way. a trick politician’s use in collusion with the lobbyist is that the lobbyist creates the protest and the politician comes to that rescue. Public hook, line, and sinker. Good boy badge.
          The bar of a “good Job” is raised at a much higher level than yours in regards to government – rightfully so. Does the word prime as in Prime Minister have no meaning?
          What good thing or Job did Harper do that illustrates that the public benefited directly since his time in office? More individual freedoms?, less unemployment?, small business growth?, government transparency?, Tax reduction?, any of these? I can’t seem to find the wow factor. The sale of the CWB was done hidden in sworn secrecy and not above board; what do you think his other “deals” looked like? Miraculously different? All that has happened is the same prime minister has exchanged his Tory blue colored glasses for liberal red colored glasses and it is business as usual. For each government, the mainstream Media 5 took the downward arrow and displayed it to the public upside-down and vice versa – like they are doing today.

        • ed

          He also dumpstered dozens of scientific libraries with irreplaceable knowledge that was worth billions. This was replaced by a few million dollars to research (greenlight) products that medical and ag. chemical companies had ready on the launch pad. Big profits. Big kickbacks.

    • ed

      Really, the way government election usually works is that the majority gets tired of the B’S and votes someone out. Someone remains standing. Let’s give them a chance at the dart game is the thought here.